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-   -   Ubuntu 10 10 ate my 64studio (http://www.linux-archive.org/64-studio-user/535965-ubuntu-10-10-ate-my-64studio.html)

Ralf Mardorf 06-06-2011 08:29 PM

Ubuntu 10 10 ate my 64studio
 
Once you've got a grub.cfg make a backup, because some packages, not
only kernel packages, run [1] and overwrite your backup. For Ubuntu
10.10 I placed a backup in /boot/grub/grub.cfg, but for Debian the
backup was deleted too.

[1] Haha! Is it named update-grub2 not grub2-updater, pardon. Rewriting
the script, so that it won't remove your grub.cfg doesn't work, because
it often is upgraded.

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Gustin Johnson 06-06-2011 08:43 PM

Ubuntu 10 10 ate my 64studio
 
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-06-06 at 20:26 +0100, Frank Smith wrote:
>> Hi Guys
>> Seems I have no entry to boot 64studio any more Ubuntu is using grub2
>> and I have no idea of how to get it back.
>> Any ideas??
>>
>> Cheers
>> all
>> Bob
>
> Yes. I can help you. I HATE grub2, but I use it too.
>
> Ok, I guess if you run 'grub2-updater' you get grotesque entries for
> GRUB's menu, right? Did you read all of them carefully? No 64 Studio
> with a different name?
>
> You can edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg similar to the GRUB1 menu.lst. Don't
> care about the warning, that nobody should do this, it's the ONLY way to
> edit a good menu.
>

Sorry, I have to speak up. You do not have to manually edit the
grub.cfg file. The warning is there for a reason.

You may want to look here:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2

and probably here as well:
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html
<snip>
> grub.cfg is the replacement for menu.lst

Not exactly. The true replacement is /etc/default/grub
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Ralf Mardorf 06-06-2011 08:58 PM

Ubuntu 10 10 ate my 64studio
 
On Mon, 2011-06-06 at 14:43 -0600, Gustin Johnson wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2011-06-06 at 20:26 +0100, Frank Smith wrote:
> >> Hi Guys
> >> Seems I have no entry to boot 64studio any more Ubuntu is using grub2
> >> and I have no idea of how to get it back.
> >> Any ideas??
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> all
> >> Bob
> >
> > Yes. I can help you. I HATE grub2, but I use it too.
> >
> > Ok, I guess if you run 'grub2-updater' you get grotesque entries for
> > GRUB's menu, right? Did you read all of them carefully? No 64 Studio
> > with a different name?
> >
> > You can edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg similar to the GRUB1 menu.lst. Don't
> > care about the warning, that nobody should do this, it's the ONLY way to
> > edit a good menu.
> >
>
> Sorry, I have to speak up. You do not have to manually edit the
> grub.cfg file. The warning is there for a reason.
>
> You may want to look here:
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
>
> and probably here as well:
> http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html
> <snip>
> > grub.cfg is the replacement for menu.lst
>
> Not exactly. The true replacement is /etc/default/grub

I only have got one life and no time to read this. What are the reasons
not to edit grub.cfg?

I can post you my grub.cfg and you may tell me what files I have to
edit, in what way, to get exactly the grub.cfg I wish to have ;)?

My grub.cfg does what I want, reading several mailing lists, most people
accept, what they don't want and on Debian users mailing list, I'm not
the only one who edit grub.cfg.

I only can help editing grub.cfg! I don't know any argument not to edit
this file.

How do you edit kernel configurations?

A lot of people run echo by a script or use an editor, e.g.

echo "CONFIG_RT_GROUP_SCHED=n" >> .config

Do you always run an application and edit things with an app?

Linux shouldn't become like Windows. It's a pity that now, when audio
becomes better and better the DEs and basic stuff becomes more worse
than Windows.

2 Cents,

Ralf

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06-07-2011 01:10 PM

Ubuntu 10 10 ate my 64studio
 
>> You may want to look here:
>> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
>>
>> and probably here as well:
>> http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html
>> <snip>
>> > grub.cfg is the replacement for menu.lst
>>
>> Not exactly. The true replacement is /etc/default/grub
>
> I only have got one life and no time to read this. What are the reasons
> not to edit grub.cfg?

You gave the reason yourself. grub.cfg is generated by a script, and
therefore overwritten with updates. I also didn't like the Grub2 way of
configuration first but that was because I was used to the Grub way
already. Grub2 is much easier to automate updates, and it's more flexible.
Still it's a bit unlogic (what have the boot loader scripts and config
files to do in the main OS config directory, and why change partition
numbering to start from 1 now but leave drive numbering starting from 0?)
You can make static (not auto-updated) menu entries with the files in
/etc/grub.d/ and set various menu behavior with /etc/default/grub, after
that you call update-grub to write a new grub.cfg (misleading naming,
should be "update-grubmenu" or similar)


> I can post you my grub.cfg and you may tell me what files I have to
> edit, in what way, to get exactly the grub.cfg I wish to have ;)?

No way to RTM for you, sorry :-) But here is a pointer to what you
probably need:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Custom%20Menu%20Entries


> My grub.cfg does what I want

So you want it to disappear on every update of kernel or Grub2?

> I only can help editing grub.cfg! I don't know any argument not to edit
> this file.

Convenience is the argument for doing it like it's meant to be done by the
makers. It's more complicated than it was with Grub but hey, once we were
also unfamiliar with that one (and it was messy as it was).


> A lot of people run echo by a script or use an editor, e.g.
> echo "CONFIG_RT_GROUP_SCHED=n" >> .config
> Do you always run an application and edit things with an app?

Yes. Everything but copying keystrokes directly to a file at kernel level
is running an application. echo, editors, command shells are all
applications to the OS. The Grub2 config files, grub.cfg included, are
still standard text files.
Nothing will stop you from editing grub.cfg. It might even be necessary
for example in a rescue situation. It's just not the most convenient way,
because you will have to update it manually all the time (or perhaps make
the scripts which overwrite it non-executable).


> the DEs and basic stuff becomes more worse
> than Windows.

Don't worry. Where in Win have I ever been able to choose from several
viable DEs and configure them to my liking. Now, I can make it more basic
or more consumer-friendly as I like (or have no DE at all!). Have I ever
met a Win bootloader which is automatically configured to let me choose
which OS on the machine to load, regardless of manufacurer? But I'm not
up-to-date, as I'm out of the scene since WinXP.


Markus


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Ralf Mardorf 06-07-2011 02:00 PM

Ubuntu 10 10 ate my 64studio
 
On Tue, 2011-06-07 at 15:10 +0200, mintaka@lavabit.com wrote:
> >> You may want to look here:
> >> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
> >>
> >> and probably here as well:
> >> http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html
> >> <snip>
> >> > grub.cfg is the replacement for menu.lst
> >>
> >> Not exactly. The true replacement is /etc/default/grub
> >
> > I only have got one life and no time to read this. What are the reasons
> > not to edit grub.cfg?
>
> You gave the reason yourself. grub.cfg is generated by a script, and
> therefore overwritten with updates. I also didn't like the Grub2 way of
> configuration first but that was because I was used to the Grub way
> already. Grub2 is much easier to automate updates, and it's more flexible.
> Still it's a bit unlogic (what have the boot loader scripts and config
> files to do in the main OS config directory, and why change partition
> numbering to start from 1 now but leave drive numbering starting from 0?)
> You can make static (not auto-updated) menu entries with the files in
> /etc/grub.d/ and set various menu behavior with /etc/default/grub, after
> that you call update-grub to write a new grub.cfg (misleading naming,
> should be "update-grubmenu" or similar)
>
>
> > I can post you my grub.cfg and you may tell me what files I have to
> > edit, in what way, to get exactly the grub.cfg I wish to have ;)?
>
> No way to RTM for you, sorry :-) But here is a pointer to what you
> probably need:
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Custom%20Menu%20Entries
>
>
> > My grub.cfg does what I want
>
> So you want it to disappear on every update of kernel or Grub2?

No, but it don't take much time to run
# cp -p grub.cfg.BACKUP /boot/grub/grub.cfg
and then to add the new kernel by using gedit (or emacs if somebody
likes to remember tons of shortcuts).
But it takes much time to read a book about GRUB2, just to get a menu
that anyway isn't exactly as it should be, while editing grub.cfg will
give you the menu you wish to have, assumed your distro provides GRUB2
with all features, very often they don't, e.g. many GRUB2 from repos
ignore the submenu command.

> > I only can help editing grub.cfg! I don't know any argument not to edit
> > this file.
>
> Convenience is the argument for doing it like it's meant to be done by the
> makers. It's more complicated than it was with Grub but hey, once we were
> also unfamiliar with that one (and it was messy as it was).

menu.lst wasn't messy.

> > A lot of people run echo by a script or use an editor, e.g.
> > echo "CONFIG_RT_GROUP_SCHED=n" >> .config
> > Do you always run an application and edit things with an app?
>
> Yes. Everything but copying keystrokes directly to a file at kernel level
> is running an application. echo, editors, command shells are all
> applications to the OS. The Grub2 config files, grub.cfg included, are
> still standard text files.
> Nothing will stop you from editing grub.cfg. It might even be necessary
> for example in a rescue situation. It's just not the most convenient way,
> because you will have to update it manually all the time (or perhaps make
> the scripts which overwrite it non-executable).

I did edit the script to generate a file named 'grub.cfg.date_and_time'
but this script will be overwritten by packages over and over again.

VERY OFTEN grub.cfg is updated by three or four packages one after the
other, this takes minutes, even if nothing changed for grub.cfg. This is
idiocy.

> > the DEs and basic stuff becomes more worse
> > than Windows.
>
> Don't worry. Where in Win have I ever been able to choose from several
> viable DEs and configure them to my liking. Now, I can make it more basic
> or more consumer-friendly as I like (or have no DE at all!). Have I ever
> met a Win bootloader which is automatically configured to let me choose
> which OS on the machine to load, regardless of manufacurer? But I'm not
> up-to-date, as I'm out of the scene since WinXP.

I'm not using Windows, but current Linux installs forced me to replace
my old faithful PS/2 mouse with a USB mouse. I can't unsolder the
fucking mouse wheel LED of this USB mouse, because I don't have a
screwdriver that fit, so it's not only bad un-ergonomically, but also
the light of the mouse wheel LED cause reflections on the screen. All
modern mouse seems to come with folderol and a guaranty to get typist's
cramps. I prefer monitors and setting up X became a PITA. E.g. nouveau
driver won't work with a kernel-rt and the nv driver is dropped, e.g.
done by Debian testing. The chances that a Windows will work with
averaged hardware OOTB is much better than that a Linux does work.
A while ago I worked for child care. Everybody was impressed when I
showed Edubuntu, but everybody has given up to use Linux, because
Windows on those pedagogues computers works OOTB and Linux doesn't.
Averaged people don't like to read tons of books to be able to get a OS
working. Linux tries to automate similar to Windows, but it fails. Tehy
aren't able to reach what's possible for Windows (perhaps regarding to
proprietary issues) and by doing this, they drop all advantages of a
simple editable Linux. All capable DEs (KDE and GNOME) switch to an
'iMicrosoft' style, even defaults for current smaller DEs come with that
'iMicrosft' taste.

*double-click on a dark theme where even scroll bars became invisible,
but everything is animated and transparent, to open audio preferences
that provide nice values for real-time audio*

2 Cents ;)

Ralf


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06-07-2011 07:21 PM

Ubuntu 10 10 ate my 64studio
 
> [new distro versions won't run as expected on older hardware]

Easy solution. Don't upgrade. There's most times no real reason to upgrade
kernels, bootloaders and DEs if they work for you. Malware is still not an
issue.

Looks as if you have a bad day. Turn off your computer, drink some water
and go out into the sun / to bed ;-)

best greetings,
Markus


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Ralf Mardorf 06-07-2011 07:27 PM

Ubuntu 10 10 ate my 64studio
 
On Tue, 2011-06-07 at 21:21 +0200, mintaka@lavabit.com wrote:
> > [new distro versions won't run as expected on older hardware]
>
> Easy solution. Don't upgrade. There's most times no real reason to upgrade
> kernels, bootloaders and DEs if they work for you. Malware is still not an
> issue.
>
> Looks as if you have a bad day. Turn off your computer, drink some water
> and go out into the sun / to bed ;-)
>
> best greetings,
> Markus

Hm?

Only jackd from svn enables completely jitter free usage of hw midi.
Only latest version of alsa enables usage of RME PCIe cards. Note, the
next generation of mobos will ship without PCI slots.
Only ...

I dunno why the original author did an upgrade, but I've got reasons to
upgrade.

Cheers!

Ralf

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Frank Smith 06-20-2011 10:17 AM

Ubuntu 10 10 ate my 64studio
 
Hi All
Solved this by installing Newest Ubuntu as my admin box.
Found my 64studio.
Bit of a strange beast but I think it will work better with the strange navigation!!

All sorted cheers
Bob



On 7 June 2011 20:27, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net> wrote:

On Tue, 2011-06-07 at 21:21 +0200, mintaka@lavabit.com wrote:

> > [new distro versions won't run as expected on older hardware]

>

> Easy solution. Don't upgrade. There's most times no real reason to upgrade

> kernels, bootloaders and DEs if they work for you. Malware is still not an

> issue.

>

> Looks as if you have a bad day. Turn off your computer, drink some water

> and go out into the sun / to bed ;-)

>

> best greetings,

> Markus



Hm?



Only jackd from svn enables completely jitter free usage of hw midi.

Only latest version of alsa enables usage of RME PCIe cards. Note, the

next generation of mobos will ship without PCI slots.

Only ...



I dunno why the original author did an upgrade, but I've got reasons to

upgrade.



Cheers!



Ralf



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