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Old 02-11-2010, 03:03 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Canonical sound position opening

Forwind info wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> A new position has come up at Canonical (ubuntu) for a sound software
> engineer.
> Details are below. You can apply online from here
> http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_UDSE/
>
>
>
> Job Title: Ubuntu Desktop Sound Engineer
> Posting Date & id: February 2010 UDSE
> Job Location: Your home, given appropriate facilities including
> broadband Internet
> Reports to: Ubuntu Desktop Team Manager
> Job Summary: We are seeking a Desktop Integration Engineer to play a
> key development and integration role on
> the Ubuntu Desktop Team * one of the technical teams that makes up the
> Ubuntu Platform Team. As part of the
> core Ubuntu team, the Engineer will work on a broad range of technical
> tasks: including feature planning,
> packaging, integration,bug*fixing and maintenance. The successful
> candidate will ensure a first class user
> experience by packaging, bug fixing and development of Pulseaudio and
> related sound technology and
> applications. Strong communication and relationship skills are as
> important as superb technical skills in this role,
> as the successful candidate will be responsible for process
> communication and coordination between Ubuntu and
> external partners, as well as ensuring commonality of purpose and
> technical approach. This job involves
> international travel several times a year, usually for one week.
> Key Responsibilities and Accountabilities:
> Take on primary maintenance of some components of the Ubuntu
> Desktop, covering sound related areas.
> •
> Engage in bug*fixing work across a wide variety of components
> of the Ubuntu platform.
> •
> Assist in pre*release testing of Ubuntu, taking
> personal ownership of problems and driving them to
> •
> solutions.
> Collaborate with other teams in the Ubuntu community and with
> upstream developers where appropriate,
> •
> to make sure that Ubuntu includes the very best in free
> software and that our goals are taken into account
> by other projects.
> Work directly with OEMs or in conjunction with the Canonical
> OEM team to address customer needs on
> •
> aggressive time lines.
> When necessary, respond to and work to resolve issues raised
> by end users and commercial support
> •
>
> customers.
>
> Required skills and experience:
> Familiarity with open source development tools and
> methodology, especially those in common use for
> •
> Ubuntu and Debian package maintenance.
> Strong understanding of the make*up of a modern GNU/Linux
> distribution.
> •
> Strong interests and experience with a variety of the
> software that makes up the core of Ubuntu.
> •
> Strong interests and experience with Pulseaudio, Alsa, and
> other sound related technology and

Why not removing Pulseaudio like 64 Studio does?

> •
> applications on Linux.
> Capacity to learn quickly about new systems and techniques.
> •
> Hands*on experience with concepts of agile development and
> lean software engineering.
> •
> Deep understanding of, and extensive use of, desktop
> operating systems; especially the GNOME and
> •
> KDE platforms.
> Excellent English communications skills.
> •
> Excellent online communications skills, including IRC, email,
> and other online venues.
> •
> Ability to be productive in a globally distributed team
> through self*discipline and self*motivation,
> •
> delivering according to a schedule.
> Ability to collaborate in real time with team members in Eastern US
> and European time zones.
> •

Assumed the philosophy of FLOSS isn't competition, but community:
What's about a joint venture with an existing multimedia distro based on
Ubuntu, e.g. 64 Studio or openArtist or ...?

Perhaps you like to contact http://www.64studio.com/team. Dunno, if they
are interested, but as an onlooker this seems to make sense, while there
will be a new multimedia distro each month and all of them needs
maintainers.

*?*
Ralf

--
Bert from Sesame Street in Taxi Driver scene "You Talkin' Me?":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IXmHqPWxUw&feature=related

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Old 02-11-2010, 03:26 PM
Daniel James
 
Default Canonical sound position opening

Hi Ralf,

> Why not removing Pulseaudio like 64 Studio does?

Pulseaudio is designed for a different use case from the typical JACK
user. I don't think there is any transport sync or MIDI support in
Pulseaudio, although I'm happy to be corrected on that.

> What's about a joint venture with an existing multimedia distro based on
> Ubuntu, e.g. 64 Studio or openArtist or ...?

Canonical already supports Ubuntu Studio, in principle. I doubt the pro
audio market is big enough for Canonical to be interested in investing
in, compared to the size of the general computing market.

> there
> will be a new multimedia distro each month and all of them needs
> maintainers.

Quite right, this is why we take a different, commercial approach from
other distros, in an attempt to achieve long-term sustainability.

Cheers!

Daniel
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:28 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Canonical sound position opening

Adrian Knoth wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 05:03:09PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
>
>
>>> Strong interests and experience with Pulseaudio, Alsa, and
>>> other sound related technology and
>>>
>
>
>> Why not removing Pulseaudio like 64 Studio does?
>>
>
> Ralf, this is clearly not the place to discuss this. Canonical is
> searching for a developer, and they can require whatever they want.
>
> It's not you who's going to decide (by x-posting) what's part of a
> distro's roadmap and what's not.
>
> Face it, pulseaudio will be the de facto sound system on desktops, and
> we're talking desktop here. It integrates very well with the pro
> environments, IOW, jack. There's absolutely no reason not to use it for
> simple consumer apps (pidgin, skype, flash, video players like vlc or
> mplayer).
>
>
> If you can't get it working yourself, wait for your distro to get it
> right. In the meantime, I suggest you don't spread FUD about pulseaudio,
> this doesn't help at all.
>

Hm, for my experiences, testing several distros, pulseaudio is an evil
show stopper and I'm glad that there is 64 Studio, removing pulseaudio,
so that everything is ok for any desktop application, not only for
real-time audio applications. Reading the threads of a lot of people I
guess pulseaudio is a pain, YMMV. Pardon ... I'm quiet now, I don't want
start a flame war or any other annoying thing, lets have fun while
having trouble with pulseaudio.

I'm not a Linux specialist, I'm not able to remove pulseaudio without
breaking dependencies for some distros and it cause a lot of pain, while
for 64 Studio, where it is removed by the people who made this distro,
everything is ok ... but I'm just a stupid user spreading FUD, so simply
ignore my experiences.

Sorry,
Ralf

--
Bert from Sesame Street in Taxi Driver scene "You Talkin' Me?":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IXmHqPWxUw&feature=related

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Old 02-11-2010, 03:44 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Canonical sound position opening

Daniel James wrote:
> Hi Ralf,
>
>
>> Why not removing Pulseaudio like 64 Studio does?
>>
>
> Pulseaudio is designed for a different use case from the typical JACK
> user. I don't think there is any transport sync or MIDI support in
> Pulseaudio, although I'm happy to be corrected on that.
>

I never missed pulseaudio when using 64 Studio, but I had a lot of
trouble when using other distros, since I migrated from KDE to GNOME and
I'm not sitting in my home studio and use JACK only, but I'm an averaged
user who uses 64 Studio as his "desktop" operating system.

>> What's about a joint venture with an existing multimedia distro based on
>> Ubuntu, e.g. 64 Studio or openArtist or ...?
>>
>
> Canonical already supports Ubuntu Studio, in principle. I doubt the pro
> audio market is big enough for Canonical to be interested in investing
> in, compared to the size of the general computing market.
>

Hm, I shouldn't write what I'm thinking about Mr. Shuttleworth, so I'll
be quiet.

>> there
>> will be a new multimedia distro each month and all of them needs
>> maintainers.
>>
>
> Quite right, this is why we take a different, commercial approach from
> other distros, in an attempt to achieve long-term sustainability.
>

There's a reason for Ralf, who is nagging all the time, that he keeps on
using 64 Studio .

You do a good job and I don't have to pay for you and you never ask for
donations and you never ... what ever ...

Thank you for 64 Studio,
Ralf
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:54 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Canonical sound position opening

Forwind info wrote:
> Ralf, simply turn off autospawn for pulse if it bothers you that much.
>
> /etc/pulse/client.conf
>
> the line that looks like
> ; autospawn=yes
>
> change it to
> autospawn = no
>
> This will turn off pulseaudio so as the next time you start up, pulse
> will not run and you will need to start it manually from command line
> if you want to use it.
>
> IMHO pulse is coming along nicely. There are tweaks to improve its
> performance ...

Pardon if I sounded raw. I'll pay a attention to your hint. And pardon,
pulseaudio shouldn't become a topic again on Linux audio lists, just
because I was short-tempered.


Ralf
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:25 PM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default Canonical sound position opening

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Forwind info wrote:
>> Ralf, simply turn off autospawn for pulse if it bothers you that much.
>>
>> /etc/pulse/client.conf
>>
>> the line that looks like
>> ; autospawn=yes
>>
>> change it to
>> autospawn = no
>>
>> This will turn off pulseaudio so as the next time you start up, pulse
>> will not run and you will need to start it manually from command line
>> if you want to use it.
>>
>> IMHO pulse is coming along nicely. There are tweaks to improve its
>> performance ...
>
> Pardon if I sounded raw. I'll pay a attention to your hint. And pardon,
> pulseaudio shouldn't become a topic again on Linux audio lists, just
> because I was short-tempered.
>
Pulse has its place and is not as evil as you believe. It will play
nicely along side jack in the near future (well, it plays nicely on my
system as long as I remember to stop pulse whenever I need jack).
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:51 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Canonical sound position opening

Gustin Johnson wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
>> Forwind info wrote:
>>
>>> Ralf, simply turn off autospawn for pulse if it bothers you that much.
>>>
>>> /etc/pulse/client.conf
>>>
>>> the line that looks like
>>> ; autospawn=yes
>>>
>>> change it to
>>> autospawn = no
>>>
>>> This will turn off pulseaudio so as the next time you start up, pulse
>>> will not run and you will need to start it manually from command line
>>> if you want to use it.
>>>
>>> IMHO pulse is coming along nicely. There are tweaks to improve its
>>> performance ...
>>>
>> Pardon if I sounded raw. I'll pay a attention to your hint. And pardon,
>> pulseaudio shouldn't become a topic again on Linux audio lists, just
>> because I was short-tempered.
>>
>>
> Pulse has its place and is not as evil as you believe. It will play
> nicely along side jack in the near future (well, it plays nicely on my
> system as long as I remember to stop pulse whenever I need jack).
>

Hm, some people portend to that, so I guess I've to believe all of you.
But reading the audio lists, a lot of people also have trouble because
of pulseaudio. I don't have any trouble when using JACK with Suse 11.2,
but I can't use any media application that isn't able to use JACK (while
JACK is using ALSA), even direct usage of ALSA doesn't work. Only
applications that are able to use JACK do work.
For 64 Studio sessions there is no trouble, all media applications I'm
using have a working audio output.

Since some days I've got a Karmic installation, but I didn't test any
application with audio output until now, more exact it's openArtist and
there are scripts to turn pulseaudio on and off.

It might be, that pulseaudio isn't evil, but I'm not missing anything
when using 64 Studio without pulseaudio, so I can't see any need to use
pulseaudio.

Some people need to use flashplayer and JACK applications at the same
time, I guess it's possible when running 64 Studio, but not when running
a distro that needs pulseaudio.

At least I don't need audio for PornTube (I can live without it), but I
need audio to make music . When using KDE this never was an issue, it
became an issue for me since I migrated to GNOME ... but only for other
distros.
Is there anything less good for 64 Studio, because it doesn't use
portaudio? In other words, do I miss that there is an advantage when
using pulseaudio for some usage?

Arts seems to be more compatible with JACK Linux audio needs ...
"artsshell -q terminate" is a simple command, I guess it isn't that easy
when using GNOME with pulseaudio ...

... but I never tested "autospawn = no".

Put your hand on your heart! Don't you prefer KDE ? I'm using GNOME
for a short time and used KDE in the past.

I'll test pulseaudio and JACK1 with Karmic, but I'll keep 64 Studio
stable, as my main system, without pulseaudio and using JACK2 .

IMO pulseaudio and because of some issues also JACK1 aren't underwritten
safe on my computer. YMMV .

"It will play nicely along side jack in the near future" Ok .

Cheers,
Ralf
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:27 AM
Daniel James
 
Default Canonical sound position opening

Hi Ralf,

>> Ralf, simply turn off autospawn for pulse if it bothers you that much.

That's perfectly possible, but it begs the question why pulseaudio is
needed at all in a DAW based around JACK. Fortunately we have specialist
and independent distros, precisely because the design choices for a
'mainstream' user are often the wrong choices for significant minorities
of other users.

>> IMHO pulse is coming along nicely. There are tweaks to improve its
>> performance ...

This reminds me of the argument for keeping Mono in Ubuntu, because
"it's really not that bad, there are a couple of good applications that
need it" etc etc. If a design decision is bad, leading to duplication
and bloat, then no amount of compensating factors can make it a good
decision.

I'm just glad that with Free Software, we are not compelled to accept
top-down decisions from the larger distros, in the way that Windows and
OS X users are.

Cheers!

Daniel
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:02 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Canonical sound position opening

Daniel James wrote:
> Hi Ralf,
>
>>> Ralf, simply turn off autospawn for pulse if it bothers you that much.
>
> That's perfectly possible, but it begs the question why pulseaudio is
> needed at all in a DAW based around JACK. Fortunately we have
> specialist and independent distros, precisely because the design
> choices for a 'mainstream' user are often the wrong choices for
> significant minorities of other users.
>
>>> IMHO pulse is coming along nicely. There are tweaks to improve its
>>> performance ...
>
> This reminds me of the argument for keeping Mono in Ubuntu, because
> "it's really not that bad, there are a couple of good applications
> that need it" etc etc. If a design decision is bad, leading to
> duplication and bloat, then no amount of compensating factors can make
> it a good decision.
>
> I'm just glad that with Free Software, we are not compelled to accept
> top-down decisions from the larger distros, in the way that Windows
> and OS X users are.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Daniel

While we are on it: Who needs AppAmor and similar stuff for a Desktop
computer + DAW? This is the only real disadvantage of "Linux distros",
not of Linux in general, distros tend to include useless software. Btw.
I tend to migrate back to KDE, so I don't have to think about
pulseaudio. 64 Studio is fine when using KDE and every other distro I
tested is ok for multimedia when using KDE, there are only issues when
using GNOME. 64 Studio seems to be the only distro were using GNOME
isn't a problem.

I received a number of mails saying, that pulseaudio will be ok for all
users in the future. Why is it a basic for GNOME today?

I guess everyone of us discussed it in the past, so we shouldn't start a
flame war now . Some people are fine with pulseaudio, other people
aren't fine with it and a lot of people just resigned to the fact that
pulseaudio is used when running GNOME.

Searching the audio mailing lists a lot of people aren't fine with
pulseaudio, but they put up with it.

I do not want this, my bad ... a moment ago I'm able to use Linux for
making music, because 64 Studio 3.0-beta is the first installation
making this possible for my hardware ... I need to compile some
applications to be satisfied and I still have trouble with external MIDI
devices, but I'm able to make music.

Btw. I'm also able to make music using Suse plus pulseaudio, but on Suse
I'm not able to use flashplayer and other usual applications.

GNOME's pulseaudio might be ok for some people, but it often is a
problem. Pulseaudio is an argument to use KDE instated of GNOME.

Just my opinion (0.02€)
Ralf

--
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IXmHqPWxUw&feature=related

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Old 02-12-2010, 10:46 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Canonical sound position opening

PS:


>> I'm just glad that with Free Software, we are not compelled to accept
>> top-down decisions from the larger distros, in the way that Windows
>> and OS X users are.

For Windows and MacOS are communities that kept using special versions.
For Windows it's a customized Windows XP Pro, I don't know what MacOs
version it's for Apple, but I know that there are users who stopped
upgrading, I just need to do a phone call, to find out on which version
the Mac folks getting caught. I do have a "criminal" version of Windows
XP Pro, it's still better on my machine than Linux is. Anyway I'm not
using that illegal Windows, but I'm using 64 Studio 3.0-beta instead.

All operating systems share hype! Discounting ethics, all operating
systems are good and stable, just the race against latest software
versions fools all operating systems.

hhhh, again 2 cents,
Ralf
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