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Old 12-13-2009, 05:19 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default mobo nvidia6100 max 640x480

Jonathan Leonard wrote:
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=39531

There's no "~/.gconf/desktop/gnome/screen/*" for my installation of
3.0-beta3 amd64 .

Unfortunately the solution is to decrease the frequency for usage with a
display, but this isn't a help when using a tube monitor .
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Old 12-14-2009, 12:15 AM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default mobo nvidia6100 max 640x480

Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> tim hall wrote:
>> On Sun, 2009-12-13 at 17:36 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>
>>> Can anybody help?
>>>
>> No, but I'm having a similar problem, keep talking.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> tim
>
> Hi Tim
>
> today I'll have fun by drinking wine and making an animation or anything
> else, while the monitor's rendering and frequency are a disaster. Maybe
> I'll use my old monitor today. I'm jobless, thus I'll have much time to
> check out how to create a new xorg.conf next week.
>
Don't bother. 8.04 will simply move it out of the way and replace it
with a generic one anyway. You are better off using the Gnome utility
for this. An alternative application to manage your video output is
grandr. If you are still having problems it might be a good idea to get
to know xrandr, the command line program that manages your video output.

The xrandr wiki can be found here:
http://www.x.org/wiki/Projects/XRandR

I put together a very basic xrandr cheatsheet, which can be found at:
https://www.meganerd.ca/site/node/12

If the default gome utility is not working you are probably going to
need some of the more advanced stuff mentioned in the wiki.

> But for the future, 3.0 or 4.0, there should be a howto that is fine for
> every setup, seemingly Jonathan, you and I are not the only one having

I think that expecting "...every setup" to be properly detected and
configured is an unreasonable expectation. The staggering amount of
variation in hardware configurations makes this a distant target IMO. I
agree that there is still room for improvement but lets manage our
expectations a little.

> trouble with a tube monitor or a display.
>
It has been so long since I have had one of these, I have forgotten
everything I used to know about them.

> Shit! 64 Studio out of the box is amazing. I'm using latest Suse too and
> Suse is rubbish out of the box, but X is a pain for 64 Studio 3.0-beta3.
>
Most of the installs I have seen of 64 Studio have worked out of the
box. I have personally tested it on 4 different machines, each with a
different video adapter and monitor resolution, and all worked.

I no longer have any nVidia 6100 based devices, but I do remember them
giving me grief. Do you have the nVidia drivers and utilities
installed? Have you tried using the nVidia utility?


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Old 12-14-2009, 03:32 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default mobo nvidia6100 max 640x480

Gustin Johnson wrote:
> The xrandr wiki can be found here:
> http://www.x.org/wiki/Projects/XRandR
>
> I put together a very basic xrandr cheatsheet, which can be found at:
> https://www.meganerd.ca/site/node/12
>
> If the default gome utility is not working you are probably going to
> need some of the more advanced stuff mentioned in the wiki.
>

Thank you Gustin

those howtos seems to be all I need, btw. the monitor should be fine for
any WM, not only for KDE and GNOME, so xorg.conf should set up
everything and not an utility for sessions with a special WM/ DE.

> I no longer have any nVidia 6100 based devices, but I do remember them
> giving me grief. Do you have the nVidia drivers and utilities
> installed? Have you tried using the nVidia utility?
>

I captured Jonathans thread, because of a similar problem. I still need
to use the on-board Radeon, I don't have a new graphics , just a new
monitor .

> I think that expecting "...every setup" to be properly detected and
> configured is an unreasonable expectation.

Sorry, you're right, but I do agree with Jonathan's idea:

> For 64studio it is safe to assume a single user workstation style at
> first when probing hardware and configuring.

... just detecting one monitor and optimizing xorg.conf to it.

Cheers,
Ralf

PS:

||$ xrandr -q
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1024 x 768, maximum 1280 x 1200
VGA-0 connected 1024x768+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
0mm x 0mm
1280x800 60.0
1280x768 60.0
1024x768 60.0*
800x600 60.3
640x480 59.9
S-video disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
HDMI-1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
HDMI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)

Yes, selecting the resolution by the GNOME utility is fine, but still
the 60 Hz are bad, the monitor seems to be able to do 160 Hz for some
resolutions.

Having breakfast now . The morning after drinking wine is not very
funny .
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Old 12-14-2009, 10:04 AM
tim hall
 
Default mobo nvidia6100 max 640x480

Hi Gustin,
On Sun, 2009-12-13 at 18:15 -0700, Gustin Johnson wrote:
> Don't bother. 8.04 will simply move it out of the way and replace it
> with a generic one anyway. You are better off using the Gnome utility
> for this. An alternative application to manage your video output is
> grandr. If you are still having problems it might be a good idea to
> get
> to know xrandr, the command line program that manages your video
> output.

Yuck. My xorg.conf had been working perfectly for years*, until I
decided to move the cards about in their slots (in order to troubleshoot
a completely different problem). Now I discover that I have to learn how
to use some new configuration application, which doesn't appear to be
intelligent enough to use my (still valid and usable) old settings or
allow me to manually override it. I'm not a fan of user-friendliness
that dis-empowers the user, I would save up and buy a Mac if I wanted
that! Grumble, moan ...

* The PC in question is approximately 10 years old, well, most of it is;
and all the components are still supported.

I don't mean to shoot the messenger, thanks for the information Gustin.
I think a brief overview of X configuration with pointers would be a
useful addition to the 64 Studio documentation to help users whose
monitor / video card set-ups are not automatically configured correctly
or indeed, have unusual and interesting monitor set-ups. Anyone?

cheers,

tim


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Old 12-14-2009, 01:41 PM
Jonathan Leonard
 
Default mobo nvidia6100 max 640x480

Hi Tim, Gustin and Ralf! *Yes, this topic could definitely use some documentation and priority. *When things go wrong, it can be very difficult and demoralizing, though as Gustin has indicated in the past, its not as disheartening as fixing a wireless configuration.*

I would say the first tweak for music people (beyond getting the primary display comfy) *and editors and is a dual monitor configuration.
Covering the xrandr commands is also useful which can be used in an emergency when the display is down and you can only connect remotely or barely see flickering letters.

On another topic entirely, I think a netjack for dummies would also be cool. *Though I saw some posts that indicate it might be changing entirely. *Something to be aware of for a future OS.

jonathan adams leonard
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 3:04 AM, tim hall <tim@64studio.com> wrote:

Hi Gustin,

On Sun, 2009-12-13 at 18:15 -0700, Gustin Johnson wrote:

> Don't bother. *8.04 will simply move it out of the way and replace it

> with a generic one anyway. *You are better off using the Gnome utility

> for this. *An alternative application to manage your video output is

> grandr. *If you are still having problems it might be a good idea to

> get

> to know xrandr, the command line program that manages your video

> output.



Yuck. My xorg.conf had been working perfectly for years*, until I

decided to move the cards about in their slots (in order to troubleshoot

a completely different problem). Now I discover that I have to learn how

to use some new configuration application, which doesn't appear to be

intelligent enough to use my (still valid and usable) old settings or

allow me to manually override it. I'm not a fan of user-friendliness

that dis-empowers the user, I would save up and buy a Mac if I wanted

that! Grumble, moan ...



* The PC in question is approximately 10 years old, well, most of it is;

and all the components are still supported.



I don't mean to shoot the messenger, thanks for the information Gustin.

I think a brief overview of X configuration with pointers would be a

useful addition to the 64 Studio documentation to help users whose

monitor / video card set-ups are not automatically configured correctly

or indeed, have unusual and interesting monitor set-ups. Anyone?



cheers,



tim





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Old 12-14-2009, 08:02 PM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default mobo nvidia6100 max 640x480

tim hall wrote:
> Hi Gustin,
> On Sun, 2009-12-13 at 18:15 -0700, Gustin Johnson wrote:
>> Don't bother. 8.04 will simply move it out of the way and replace it
>> with a generic one anyway. You are better off using the Gnome utility
>> for this. An alternative application to manage your video output is
>> grandr. If you are still having problems it might be a good idea to
>> get
>> to know xrandr, the command line program that manages your video
>> output.
>
> Yuck. My xorg.conf had been working perfectly for years*, until I
> decided to move the cards about in their slots (in order to troubleshoot
> a completely different problem). Now I discover that I have to learn how
> to use some new configuration application, which doesn't appear to be
> intelligent enough to use my (still valid and usable) old settings or
> allow me to manually override it. I'm not a fan of user-friendliness
> that dis-empowers the user, I would save up and buy a Mac if I wanted
> that! Grumble, moan ...

I felt the same at first. Once I understood how it works I am now a big
fan. Being able to change to Xorg settings on the fly, adding,
changing, and re-orientating displays on the fly like every other OS is
also a good thing. No more of the edit/restart X dance for me. When
things go wrong I can still ssh in and fix things, now without having to
restart X.

I am not a fan of dumbing things down for the mythical "average user",
but this is a case of legitimate progress that happens to make point and
click configuration possible. Change is almost always uncomfortable but
it is not always bad

I only mention xrandr but it succeeds where sometimes the GUIs fail.
Plus when things go wrong and you can't see the screen, it is a good
utility to know.
>
> * The PC in question is approximately 10 years old, well, most of it is;
> and all the components are still supported.
>
As long as the hardware is supported by the latest Xorg release, you
should be OK.

> I don't mean to shoot the messenger, thanks for the information Gustin.
> I think a brief overview of X configuration with pointers would be a
> useful addition to the 64 Studio documentation to help users whose
> monitor / video card set-ups are not automatically configured correctly
> or indeed, have unusual and interesting monitor set-ups. Anyone?

I used to know the X configuration inside and out. Lately though
everything just seems to work for me out of the box. I am writing this
on a 5 year old tablet that worked out of the box (even the touchscreen
works though I very rarely use it).

What I am trying to say is that there is less of a need these days on
complete how-to guides for configuring X. It would still be useful to
document those edge cases but since I don't have any of that hardware I
am pretty useless for this task.

Hth,
__

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Old 12-15-2009, 09:57 AM
tim hall
 
Default mobo nvidia6100 max 640x480

On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 14:02 -0700, Gustin Johnson wrote:
> tim hall wrote:
> > Yuck. My xorg.conf had been working perfectly for years*, until I
> > decided to move the cards about in their slots (in order to troubleshoot
> > a completely different problem). Now I discover that I have to learn how
> > to use some new configuration application, which doesn't appear to be
> > intelligent enough to use my (still valid and usable) old settings or
> > allow me to manually override it. I'm not a fan of user-friendliness
> > that dis-empowers the user, I would save up and buy a Mac if I wanted
> > that! Grumble, moan ...
>
> I felt the same at first. Once I understood how it works I am now a big
> fan. Being able to change to Xorg settings on the fly, adding,
> changing, and re-orientating displays on the fly like every other OS is
> also a good thing. No more of the edit/restart X dance for me. When
> things go wrong I can still ssh in and fix things, now without having to
> restart X.
>
> I am not a fan of dumbing things down for the mythical "average user",
> but this is a case of legitimate progress that happens to make point and
> click configuration possible. Change is almost always uncomfortable but
> it is not always bad

Yes, I don't like change much. Having looked at the docs briefly, I'll
experiment with it later and see what I can achieve. If as you say, it's
a legitimate process, I too will probably come to swear by it. ;-)

> What I am trying to say is that there is less of a need these days on
> complete how-to guides for configuring X. It would still be useful to
> document those edge cases but since I don't have any of that hardware I
> am pretty useless for this task.

Yep, I wasn't suggesting a complete Howto. Just a user-friendly
introduction to the subject with pointers. The official docs are a
little austere. We can only really document edge cases as they come up.

cheers,

tim


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Old 12-17-2009, 08:28 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default mobo nvidia6100 max 640x480

Gustin Johnson wrote:
> [snip]
>
> The xrandr wiki can be found here:
> http://www.x.org/wiki/Projects/XRandR
>
> I put together a very basic xrandr cheatsheet, which can be found at:
> https://www.meganerd.ca/site/node/12
> [snip]
>

Now that I know I have to search the web for "xrandr ubuntu"
http://www.ixquick.com/ found a lot of links on my native language.
Perhaps there are documentations, but as Tim said before, some hints and
links would be a good idea.

Right now I'll try to set up X for an integrated ATI Radeon X1250-based
graphics and a Lifetec/ Medion MD1998JB J91B.

I'll send a report (howto or how-not-to-do) later.

To be continued ...

Ralf
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