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Old 01-14-2009, 02:00 AM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default root-password problem

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� wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> having strange problem .. can't log in like a root.
> I mean su + root_password combination doesn't work.
>
It is not a problem but a design decision. Ubuntu does not set a root
password and PAM denies logins with accounts that do not have passwords.
This was done to encourage people to use sudo and to not develope any
bad habits by using the root account.

Use sudo. If you really must use root (I can't actually imagine why),
the solution involves sudo. That should be a big enough hint if you are
motivated to enable the root account.

> mira@64studio:~$ su
> Password:
> su: Authentication failure
>
> I was not changing password.
> Also when running synaptic from main menu root_password is not accepted.

Use your user's password. synaptic is being invoked by sudo.

> sudo is working
>
> Thanks for any advice
>

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Old 01-14-2009, 07:49 AM
Jaromír Mikeš
 
Default root-password problem

< > having strange problem .. can't log in like a root.
< > I mean su + root_password combination doesn't work.
< >
< > mira@64studio:~$ su
< > Password:
< > su: Authentication failure
< >
< > I was not changing password.

< > Also when running synaptic from main menu root_password is not accepted.
< > sudo is working
<
< Did you try sudo passwd to change root password?
<


This working ... thanks

mira
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:04 AM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default root-password problem

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� wrote:
> < > having strange problem .. can't log in like a root.
> < > I mean su + root_password combination doesn't work.
> < > < > mira@64studio:~$ su
> < > Password: < > su: Authentication failure
> < > < > I was not changing password.
> < > Also when running synaptic from main menu root_password is not
> accepted.
> < > sudo is working
> < < Did you try sudo passwd to change root password?
> <
> This working ... thanks
>
It was always working. Just use sudo for everything. It is a good
habit to get into.
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:03 AM
tim hall
 
Default root-password problem

Gustin Johnson wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

� wrote:


Hello all,

having strange problem .. can't log in like a root.
I mean su + root_password combination doesn't work.



It is not a problem but a design decision. Ubuntu does not set a root
password and PAM denies logins with accounts that do not have passwords.
This was done to encourage people to use sudo and to not develope any
bad habits by using the root account.

Use sudo. If you really must use root (I can't actually imagine why),
the solution involves sudo. That should be a big enough hint if you are
motivated to enable the root account.

One of the worst design decisions ever made IMO and the main reason why
I won't be using any Ubuntu-derived distro including this one. It annoys
me so much.
Yes, I know you can get round it by setting a root password. If I wanted
my distro to dictate my behaviour, I'd use a Mac.

*froth*

cheers,

tim

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Old 01-14-2009, 09:21 AM
 
Default root-password problem

> Gustin Johnson wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> � wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> having strange problem .. can't log in like a root.
>>> I mean su + root_password combination doesn't work.
>>>
>>>
>> It is not a problem but a design decision. Ubuntu does not set a root
>> password and PAM denies logins with accounts that do not have passwords.
>> This was done to encourage people to use sudo and to not develope any
>> bad habits by using the root account.
>>
>> Use sudo. If you really must use root (I can't actually imagine why),
>> the solution involves sudo. That should be a big enough hint if you are
>> motivated to enable the root account.
>>
> One of the worst design decisions ever made IMO and the main reason why
> I won't be using any Ubuntu-derived distro including this one. It annoys
> me so much.
> Yes, I know you can get round it by setting a root password. If I wanted
> my distro to dictate my behaviour, I'd use a Mac.
> *froth*

It annoys me as well. The fact that I have to enter the password after
each sudo also presents a problem to me... 64 Studio debian based used to
grant root power just by using the sudo command.

If we use the ubunto sources we have to make an effort to keep the good of
the 64 Studio disto as we knew it as far as possible. The alternative
would be to start using snapshots of Sid (like ubuntu does) for 64
Studio... Too much work :-(

Q

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Old 01-14-2009, 09:37 AM
Andy Farnell
 
Default root-password problem

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:21:34 +0200 (SAST)
qharley@wbs.co.za wrote:

> > Yes, I know you can get round it by setting a root password. If I wanted
> > my distro to dictate my behaviour, I'd use a Mac.
> > *froth*
>
> It annoys me as well. The fact that I have to enter the password after

It's a very poor (prescriptive and arrogant) design decision. People
using a distro like 64Studio are likely able to make an informed
choice. Creating a root account should be an install option, and it
should be _enabled_ by default.

2c,

a.

--
Use the source
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:40 AM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default root-password problem

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Andy Farnell wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:21:34 +0200 (SAST)
> qharley@wbs.co.za wrote:
>
>>> Yes, I know you can get round it by setting a root password. If I wanted
>>> my distro to dictate my behaviour, I'd use a Mac.
>>> *froth*
>> It annoys me as well. The fact that I have to enter the password after
>
> It's a very poor (prescriptive and arrogant) design decision. People
> using a distro like 64Studio are likely able to make an informed
> choice. Creating a root account should be an install option, and it
> should be _enabled_ by default.
>
The root account has been created. All that is missing is a password.
I still don't see the arrogance of this. Using sudo is a good habit to
get into, what exactly is the problem with encouraging new users to
develop good habits?

Why does no one get angry at /etc/security/limits.conf? This file is
limiting the freedom of your processes after all. Surely that should
get a rise out of someone?

Also, artists and musicians are exactly the users I would *not* expect
to make an informed choice regarding the security of their systems. I
mean no disrespect, it is simply that most artists and musicians that I
have ever met seem to have better things to do than learn the nuts and
bolts of being a sysadmin. In that case I would hope that their system
is secure by default so that they do not have to worry or waste time
learning about PAM, iptables, and the like. They can just go about
creating works of art.


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Old 01-14-2009, 10:56 AM
Dave Phillips
 
Default root-password problem

Gustin Johnson wrote:

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Hash: SHA1

Andy Farnell wrote:


On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:21:34 +0200 (SAST)
qharley@wbs.co.za wrote:



Yes, I know you can get round it by setting a root password. If I wanted
my distro to dictate my behaviour, I'd use a Mac.
*froth*


It annoys me as well. The fact that I have to enter the password after


It's a very poor (prescriptive and arrogant) design decision. People
using a distro like 64Studio are likely able to make an informed
choice. Creating a root account should be an install option, and it
should be _enabled_ by default.



The root account has been created. All that is missing is a password.
I still don't see the arrogance of this. Using sudo is a good habit to
get into, what exactly is the problem with encouraging new users to
develop good habits?
I'm with Gustin on this one. At first I didn't like Ubuntu's insistence
on sudo, but it doesn't matter to me now. The only times I need su
privileges are when I'm performing administative tasks, mostly
installing stuff from repos or my own builds. Everything is still
copacetic here.


Best,

dp

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Old 01-14-2009, 11:19 AM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default root-password problem

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qharley@wbs.co.za wrote:
<snip>
>>>
>> One of the worst design decisions ever made IMO and the main reason
>> why I won't be using any Ubuntu-derived distro including this one.
>> It annoys me so much. Yes, I know you can get round it by setting a

You are not getting around anything. PAM is configured to not allow
logins without a password. A single command sets the password. I like
that people new to Linux are taught some measure of security, and this
is a good thing with a Distro as popular as Ubuntu. If anyone remembers
Lindows *shudder*, by default your day to day user *was* root.

>> root password. If I wanted my distro to dictate my behaviour, I'd
>> use a Mac. *froth*
>
Ubuntu is not dictating anything, merely encouraging mew users to learn
good habits. You can decide to behave differently if you so desire. No
one is stopping you. If this were a Mac, you would not be able to run
that single command to set things to your tastes. Seriously, two small
words plus your password twice. UAC this is not.

> It annoys me as well. The fact that I have to enter the password
> after each sudo also presents a problem to me... 64 Studio debian
> based used to grant root power just by using the sudo command.
>
This is not the default behaviour of Debian (actually it is not the
default behaviour of sudo). Sudo has required a password on all the
default installations of every distro I have ever used, except for
64Studio. Fortunately that was easy to correct by changing one option.

- From the sudo man page:
"NOPASSWD and PASSWD
By default, sudo requires that a user authenticate him or herself before
running a command. This behavior can be modified via the NOPASSWD tag".

You should ask yourself why the people who made sudo set this as the
default. The old 64Studio was the odd man out here with the NOPASSWD
option set in the *default* install (for the record, this is a bad thing
IMO).

> If we use the ubunto sources we have to make an effort to keep the
> good of the 64 Studio disto as we knew it as far as possible. The
> alternative would be to start using snapshots of Sid (like ubuntu
> does) for 64 Studio... Too much work :-(
>
Actually sudo only asks your password once until it times out (ie. you
don't use sudo for a while). The Debian/Ubuntu default is 15 minutes
instead of the default 5 (compiled in option specific to Debian and
derivatives, including Ubuntu). Ubuntu could be made to behave like you
are used to with less than 1 minute of configuration. There is nothing
magical here. One line gets added to /etc/sudoers via the visudo
command (so you can disable the password for sudo), and you set a root
password. Thats it. You are free to do this, even if I (or anyone else)
considers it a bad idea.

I love this stuff too much sometimes.

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Old 01-14-2009, 05:17 PM
Folderol
 
Default root-password problem

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 06:56:39 -0500
Dave Phillips <dlphilp@linux-sound.org> wrote:

> Gustin Johnson wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Andy Farnell wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:21:34 +0200 (SAST)
> >> qharley@wbs.co.za wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>> Yes, I know you can get round it by setting a root password. If I wanted
> >>>> my distro to dictate my behaviour, I'd use a Mac.
> >>>> *froth*
> >>>>
> >>> It annoys me as well. The fact that I have to enter the password after
> >>>
> >> It's a very poor (prescriptive and arrogant) design decision. People
> >> using a distro like 64Studio are likely able to make an informed
> >> choice. Creating a root account should be an install option, and it
> >> should be _enabled_ by default.
> >>
> >>
> > The root account has been created. All that is missing is a password.
> > I still don't see the arrogance of this. Using sudo is a good habit to
> > get into, what exactly is the problem with encouraging new users to
> > develop good habits?
> I'm with Gustin on this one. At first I didn't like Ubuntu's insistence
> on sudo, but it doesn't matter to me now. The only times I need su
> privileges are when I'm performing administative tasks, mostly
> installing stuff from repos or my own builds. Everything is still
> copacetic here.
>
> Best,
>
> dp

I don't like sudo at all. In the first place I regard it as a
weakening of security, in that to get admin privilege you only need
your login password, rather than a completely separate one.

Also, when doing admin work it is rare that I want to use a single
command. I normally want to perform a block of operations in a terminal
window then close it when I've finished. At the same time I don't want
a sudo shell. I want it to be a conscious decision on my part that
'here be dragons'.

Unless there is a simple way to set up an access a proper root account,
I guess I'll be sticking with 2.1 then

--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
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