Quentin Harley wrote:
> The reason Daniel and Free chose Gnome as the default, it that they
> needed a stable desktop that will cause the least user re-education
> for folks coming from windows backgrounds. Gnome is also the default
> desktop in Ubuntu, and seemed the best choice at the time the project
> started, and it has been the default ever since. Even though the ISO
> does not fit on a CD any more, they still want the ISO as small as
> possible, to ease the download of it, and to make the installation as
> fool-proof as possible.
>
> We shall see what version 3 brings, but I predict Gnome as the
> standard with others available from Debian.
>
> Cheers,
> Quentin

GNOME is stable and easy to use, but I'm missing some KDE comfort. GNOME
don't need much more CPU resources than Fluxbox does, Ion really needs
less CPU resources. There is a theme for 64 Studio's GNOME I'm fine with
and it was easy to change from double to single clicks. I like to have a
small install media download too, because I will blow up my Linux by
repositories and not by the install media. GNOME for me is the happy
medium. I don't give a damm on what a Shuttleworth project does, but
GNOME seems to be the best choice for everyone.

I guess KWin/KDE and Fluxbox are often used WM/DEs, so if people get
troubles with installing them for 64 Studio, the list and the forums can
help.

It's better we have as soon as possible a new 64 Studio, maybe with some
new audio apps,instead of including a new WM/DE.

I'm not a GNOME fan too, but I can live with GNOME, there are other
problems I've got.

Anyway, if most people prefer something like Fluxbox, this will be a
reason to include it.

64 Studio should take care of a braille able installer.

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I remember that I once run Fluxbox and after I closed a file browser,
the session become a GNOME session. I guess this was with 64 Studio and
the GNOME file browser.

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Ralf Mardorf wrote:

Quentin Harley wrote:


The reason Daniel and Free chose Gnome as the default, it that they
needed a stable desktop that will cause the least user re-education
for folks coming from windows backgrounds. Gnome is also the default
desktop in Ubuntu, and seemed the best choice at the time the project
started, and it has been the default ever since. Even though the ISO
does not fit on a CD any more, they still want the ISO as small as
possible, to ease the download of it, and to make the installation as
fool-proof as possible.

We shall see what version 3 brings, but I predict Gnome as the
standard with others available from Debian.

Cheers,
Quentin



GNOME is stable and easy to use, but I'm missing some KDE comfort. GNOME
don't need much more CPU resources than Fluxbox does, Ion really needs
less CPU resources. There is a theme for 64 Studio's GNOME I'm fine with
and it was easy to change from double to single clicks. I like to have a
small install media download too, because I will blow up my Linux by
repositories and not by the install media. GNOME for me is the happy
medium. I don't give a damm on what a Shuttleworth project does, but
GNOME seems to be the best choice for everyone.

well, i am able to come around with gnome too, but it is not the best
choice for me and probably for some others. so it is not the best choice
for everyone.

I guess KWin/KDE and Fluxbox are often used WM/DEs, so if people get
troubles with installing them for 64 Studio, the list and the forums can
help.

hmm, you are right here, but my studio machine is not connected to the
internet in the moment....

It's better we have as soon as possible a new 64 Studio, maybe with some
new audio apps,instead of including a new WM/DE.

this is also where i think different. every appi i seriously use for pro
audio work is any way self compiled here, as well as on my studio machine.
for me, if i boot my debian machine start fluxbox and take a look into
'ps ax' the list will be about the third of the list which comes out
when running gnome or kde.
i just do not need network on my production machine auto starting (by
example). if i need network i ll rather type 'sudo dhclient' into a
console, but i 'hate' unnecessary services which are starting by them
self...


of course gnome has a lot of advantages too, like the volume manager,
drag'n'drop etc...


cheers,
doc

I'm not a GNOME fan too, but I can live with GNOME, there are other
problems I've got.

Anyway, if most people prefer something like Fluxbox, this will be a
reason to include it.

64 Studio should take care of a braille able installer.


------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Folderol wrote:

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:31:12 -0800 (PST)
Rua Haszard Morris <ruahm@yahoo.com> wrote:



When I first started playing around with 64studio I often would apt-get fluxbox and some other WMs under the impression that I would prefer them, and it was easy to set up - just add the appropriate debian repository (the one that corresponds to the 64studio dist), apt-get install the wms you want, and they are added to the options in GDM, where you can also set which one you want to be the default.

So I _think_ (haven't tried in a while) that using fluxbox with 64studio is very straightforward to set up, give it a try...

hallo, i think that i tried just this way, but it did not worked out. so
i continued using gnome..




FWIW I'm an openbox man (based loosely on fluxbox I believe)

I'm *very* picky about WM behaviour and not overly fussed about
appearance, and openbox is extremely configurable.

For example, I never want work area clicks to change window
stacking level, but to always grab focus.

The window frame clicks must never change focus and the behaviour of
all three buttons perform the same move/resize actions with the
variation that the left button always rises the window, the middle one
leaves it at its current level, and the right button lowers it.

Once you get used to this sort of behaviour it dramatically improves
your productivity. I've so far been unable to do this with either KDE or
Gnome.

yeah, this sound similar like how much better (for me) the alt+tab works
in fluxbox, than in gnome...


cheers,
doc

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Dragan Noveski wrote:
>> GNOME for me is the happy
>> medium. I don't give a damm on what a Shuttleworth project does, but
>> GNOME seems to be the best choice for everyone.
>>
> well, i am able to come around with gnome too, but it is not the best
> choice for me and probably for some others. so it is not the best
> choice for everyone.

This is a result of my broken English, I noticed this right after I sent
my mail.
It's the best choice for a distro, that will only provide 1 WM/DE to
keep downloads small and fast, because GNOME is the happy medium. It's
not like KDE and it's not like Fluxbox, but it is in the middle and for
usage it's similar to 98se and XP.

>> I guess KWin/KDE and Fluxbox are often used WM/DEs, so if people get
>> troubles with installing them for 64 Studio, the list and the forums can
>> help.
>>
> hmm, you are right here, but my studio machine is not connected to the
> internet in the moment....

Linux without internet connection is bad, but there's a solution for
you. Get the 64 Studio 3.0 install media and the Debian Lenny install
media(s) too.

>> It's better we have as soon as possible a new 64 Studio, maybe with some
>> new audio apps,instead of including a new WM/DE.
>>
> this is also where i think different. every appi i seriously use for
> pro audio work is any way self compiled here, as well as on my studio
> machine.

Because of my machine I need to compile a lot myself, e.g. I have a
kernel-rt 2.6.24 for my 64 Studio, but especially that is nonsensical,
64 Studio should be a distro that should be pro audio by default.

> for me, if i boot my debian machine start fluxbox and take a look into
> 'ps ax' the list will be about the third of the list which comes out
> when running gnome or kde.
> i just do not need network on my production machine auto starting (by
> example). if i need network i ll rather type 'sudo dhclient' into a
> console, but i 'hate' unnecessary services which are starting by them
> self...

There is the need to have a happy medium. De facto GNOME won't need
notable more RAM and CPU resources. And pro audio, if Linux can be
called pro audio, is extreme wasteful with resources. LADSPA and DSSI,
missing aux channels etc. are wasting resources more than any other OS
will do for audio. If we remove some decent services, than we will get
troubles, e.g. if a blind person tries to install 64 Studio with braille.

> of course gnome has a lot of advantages too, like the volume manager,
> drag'n'drop etc...

Yes, and KDE has much more of this, e.g. I can transform videos by right
click, from any, to any other video format.

I don't like GNOME, but it's an intelligent choice. You are able to set
Fluxbox to your needs, but imagine how it will be for someone, who is
new with computers or who only knows Windows or MacOS.

Even if I don't like Shuttleworth and Ubuntu, there are the most actual
howtos in any language for Ubuntu and because of this, for GNOME,
especially for noobs and I mean really noobs.

I only would tend to Fluxbox as default or as special 64 Studio package,
if many 64 Studio users would prefer this.

Cheers,
Ralf

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Ralf Mardorf wrote:

Dragan Noveski wrote:


GNOME for me is the happy
medium. I don't give a damm on what a Shuttleworth project does, but
GNOME seems to be the best choice for everyone.



well, i am able to come around with gnome too, but it is not the best
choice for me and probably for some others. so it is not the best
choice for everyone.



This is a result of my broken English, I noticed this right after I sent
my mail.
It's the best choice for a distro, that will only provide 1 WM/DE to
keep downloads small and fast, because GNOME is the happy medium. It's
not like KDE and it's not like Fluxbox, but it is in the middle and for
usage it's similar to 98se and XP.

Is kde4 not more similar to Windows Vista? And so better for
'windows-converts'?



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I think it might be too similar

It should be noted that GNOME is also to a certain degree 'familiar' for Mac OS (X) users, not just arbitrary versions of Windows.

GNOME is a good default. Others can be got easily.



----- Original Message ----
From: Grammostola Rosea <rosea.grammostola@gmail.com>
Cc: 64studio-users mailing list <64studio-users@64studio.com>
Sent: Thursday, 27 November, 2008 10:20:13 AM
Subject: Re: [64studio-users] Version 3 and lightweight window managers

Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Dragan Noveski wrote:
>
>>> GNOME for me is the happy
>>> medium. I don't give a damm on what a Shuttleworth project does, but
>>> GNOME seems to be the best choice for everyone.
>>>
>> well, i am able to come around with gnome too, but it is not the best
>> choice for me and probably for some others. so it is not the best
>> choice for everyone.
>>
>
> This is a result of my broken English, I noticed this right after I sent
> my mail.
> It's the best choice for a distro, that will only provide 1 WM/DE to
> keep downloads small and fast, because GNOME is the happy medium. It's
> not like KDE and it's not like Fluxbox, but it is in the middle and for
> usage it's similar to 98se and XP.
>
Is kde4 not more similar to Windows Vista? And so better for 'windows-converts'?


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Grammostola Rosea wrote:
> Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> Dragan Noveski wrote:
>>
>>>> GNOME for me is the happy
>>>> medium. I don't give a damm on what a Shuttleworth project does, but
>>>> GNOME seems to be the best choice for everyone.
>>>>
>>> well, i am able to come around with gnome too, but it is not the best
>>> choice for me and probably for some others. so it is not the best
>>> choice for everyone.
>>>
>>
>> This is a result of my broken English, I noticed this right after I sent
>> my mail.
>> It's the best choice for a distro, that will only provide 1 WM/DE to
>> keep downloads small and fast, because GNOME is the happy medium. It's
>> not like KDE and it's not like Fluxbox, but it is in the middle and for
>> usage it's similar to 98se and XP.
>>
> Is kde4 not more similar to Windows Vista? And so better for
> 'windows-converts'?
>
>

I don't know enough about Vista, but I guess you're right. For Suse KDE4
also is stable on my machine, anyway, KDE4 isn't the happy medium, you
won't have KDE3 or KDE4 running on a computer with a slow CPU and less
RAM. It's also possible to have a Windows like Menu for KDE3 and to set
a KDE to a Windows like behaviour. 64 Studio shouldn't be like Windows,
it just should have a WM/DE, that allows switching from Microsoft to
Linux, without learning to much new for a beginner. The happy medium
should fit to native Linux users and Windows users with any PC and the
64 Studio install media should be small enough for a fast download. I
guess this is the thought.

Just my opinion,
Ralf

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>> Is kde4 not more similar to Windows Vista? And so better for
>> 'windows-converts'?
>>
>>
>>
>
> I don't know enough about Vista, but I guess you're right. For Suse KDE4
> also is stable on my machine, anyway, KDE4 isn't the happy medium, you
> won't have KDE3 or KDE4 running on a computer with a slow CPU and less
> RAM. It's also possible to have a Windows like Menu for KDE3 and to set
> a KDE to a Windows like behaviour. 64 Studio shouldn't be like Windows,
> it just should have a WM/DE, that allows switching from Microsoft to
> Linux, without learning to much new for a beginner. The happy medium
> should fit to native Linux users and Windows users with any PC and the
> 64 Studio install media should be small enough for a fast download. I
> guess this is the thought.
>
> Just my opinion,
> Ralf
>

I have to add, that I don't think a default KDE will need critical more
resources, than GNOME does, but the features might confuse some newbies,
also KDE can cause some troubles, for some GUIs.

Personally I like KDE3 the best and for Debian ex Lenny.

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> Personally I like KDE3 the best and for Debian ex Lenny.
>

as from Lenny, (>)= KDE 3.5.9 ... I don't know how to say correctly on
English

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