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Old 08-13-2008, 01:20 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Trouble with realtime - Take 2

Hi

today I changed 64 Studios limit.conf from nice -10 to nice -19.

I made a recording ROSEGARDEN MIDI TRACK > FLUIDSYNTH-DSSI > ROSEGARDEN
AUDIO TRACK.
The recorded 1/8 kicks are between ca. 2ms and ca. 3ms to early, that
means the fluctuation's drift is max. 1ms.
Playing the MIDI TRACK and the AUDIO TRACK in unisono, the phasing is
fine, no "click" can be heard as to late or to early.
Maybe it's possible to make music with this.

But the troubles aren't solved, because the same kick played and
recorded from QSynth instead of the DSSI plugin are between ca. 2ms to
early and a little bit over 0ms, that means that the fluctuation's drift
is max. 2ms.
Playing the MIDI TRACK and the AUDIO TRACK in unisono isn't musical, the
kicks clicks will be heard as double clicks.

I couldn't test what will happen if I will record a Alesis D4 drum
module instead of drums from the studio in the box, because Rosegarden
always crashed when I tried to do this. I will check this out with Suse,
but at the moment I'm short in time. I also will test again what will
happen if I try to use Reaper again, but I guess Reaper has no chance,
even with nice set to -19.

Because my mails from yesterday aren't through the 64 Studio users list,
here are the results from yesterday using 64 Studio and Suse 11.0 with
limits.conf set nice to -10, instead of today's -19.

64 Studio and Rosegarden playing and recording QSynth:
Fluctuation between ca. 3ms to early and ca. 0ms, max. drift was 3ms.
So today's ca. 2ms to eraly and ca. 0ms are better, even if
it's not good enough to have no unwanted effects, e.g. playing a sharp
bass with a click and a kick will result in a bugging double click sound.

Suse 11.0 and Reaper:
Fluctuation between 5ms to early and 12.5ms to late, max. drift 17.5ms.
This drift can be heard by just playing the MIDI track, there is no need
to set it in relation to recordings. The tuning won't change, only the
tempo isn't straight.

The only way to make music for me at the moment seems to use Rosegarden
with DSSI. I guess I can say, there's no fluctuation to hear, resp. in
contrast to the C64, Atari and drum computers I've got and to Apple and
Windows I know, listening with golden ears, I have to say, that also the
fluctuation of ca. 1ms sometimes can be heard or sometimes it's a little
bit more.

What I need is to get Rosegarden fine with Qsynth, Hydrogen etc., I will
be satisfied if there will be a fluctuation's drift of 1ms or better,
like it is for Non-Linux equipment, if the signal is max. 3ms to early
or to late seems to make no big difference, in case of need, some
signals has to be moved manually to come at the point.

The trouble seems to be produced by Jack or ALSA MIDI, because the DSSI
plugin is more or less straight enough in timing, to make music and it's
Fluidsynth, also used by QSynth. QSynth, Hydrogen etc. aren't in timing,
the tempo is changing to much, while the tuning seems to be stable.

I will take a look if there's a new BIOS update for my mobo, but I've to
say that all people in my environment I know, have the same problems
like I've got with Linux, I only hear from people living far away, that
they have no problems with Linux and nobody makes the same kind of music
like I do, so I don't know if Linux can be better than my Linux or if
there's a limitation in the kind it's possible to make music with Linux.

QJackCtl's latencies for the "more unstable" (because there was the need
for a KDE upgrade) 64 Studio are 26.1ms and for the more stable Suse
11.0 46.4ms at the moment.

The system is
an Athlon X2 2.1GHz,
a Terratec EWX 24/96 (without MIDI),
an USB MIDI device,
RAM 2GB - 128MB for the integrated Radeon X1250-based graphics using the
Vesa driver,
on-board audio and HDMI of the Asus M2A-VM HDMI are disabled.

Set nice to -19 was a little help, what else can I do?

Cheers,
Ralf

_______________________________________________
64studio-users mailing list
64studio-users@64studio.com
http://lists.64studio.com/mailman/listinfo/64studio-users
 
Old 08-13-2008, 02:21 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Trouble with realtime - Take 2

Most of my latest mails didn't come through the list, this one is
important (for me).

Hi

today I changed 64 Studios limit.conf from nice -10 to nice -19.

I made a recording ROSEGARDEN MIDI TRACK > FLUIDSYNTH-DSSI > ROSEGARDEN
AUDIO TRACK.
The recorded 1/8 kicks are between ca. 2ms and ca. 3ms to early, that
means the fluctuation's drift is max. 1ms.
Playing the MIDI TRACK and the AUDIO TRACK in unisono, the phasing is
fine, no "click" can be heard as to late or to early.
Maybe it's possible to make music with this.

But the troubles aren't solved, because the same kick played and
recorded from QSynth instead of the DSSI plugin are between ca. 2ms to
early and a little bit over 0ms, that means that the fluctuation's drift
is max. 2ms.
Playing the MIDI TRACK and the AUDIO TRACK in unisono isn't musical, the
kicks clicks will be heard as double clicks.

I couldn't test what will happen if I will record a Alesis D4 drum
module instead of drums from the studio in the box, because Rosegarden
always crashed when I tried to do this. I will check this out with Suse,
but at the moment I'm short in time. I also will test again what will
happen if I try to use Reaper again, but I guess Reaper has no chance,
even with nice set to -19.

Because my mails from yesterday aren't through the 64 Studio users list,
here are the results from yesterday using 64 Studio and Suse 11.0 with
limits.conf set nice to -10, instead of today's -19.

64 Studio and Rosegarden playing and recording QSynth:
Fluctuation between ca. 3ms to early and ca. 0ms, max. drift was 3ms.
So today's ca. 2ms to eraly and ca. 0ms are better, even if
it's not good enough to have no unwanted effects, e.g. playing a sharp
bass with a click and a kick will result in a bugging double click sound.

Suse 11.0 and Reaper:
Fluctuation between 5ms to early and 12.5ms to late, max. drift 17.5ms.
This drift can be heard by just playing the MIDI track, there is no need
to set it in relation to recordings. The tuning won't change, only the
tempo isn't straight.

The only way to make music for me at the moment seems to use Rosegarden
with DSSI. I guess I can say, there's no fluctuation to hear, resp. in
contrast to the C64, Atari and drum computers I've got and to Apple and
Windows I know, listening with golden ears, I have to say, that also the
fluctuation of ca. 1ms sometimes can be heard or sometimes it's a little
bit more.

What I need is to get Rosegarden fine with Qsynth, Hydrogen etc., I will
be satisfied if there will be a fluctuation's drift of 1ms or better,
like it is for Non-Linux equipment, if the signal is max. 3ms to early
or to late seems to make no big difference, in case of need, some
signals has to be moved manually to come at the point.

The trouble seems to be produced by Jack or ALSA MIDI, because the DSSI
plugin is more or less straight enough in timing, to make music and it's
Fluidsynth, also used by QSynth. QSynth, Hydrogen etc. aren't in timing,
the tempo is changing to much, while the tuning seems to be stable.

I will take a look if there's a new BIOS update for my mobo, but I've to
say that all people in my environment I know, have the same problems
like I've got with Linux, I only hear from people living far away, that
they have no problems with Linux and nobody makes the same kind of music
like I do, so I don't know if Linux can be better than my Linux or if
there's a limitation in the kind it's possible to make music with Linux.

QJackCtl's latencies for the "more unstable" (because there was the need
for a KDE upgrade) 64 Studio are 26.1ms and for the more stable Suse
11.0 46.4ms at the moment.

The system is
an Athlon X2 2.1GHz,
a Terratec EWX 24/96 (without MIDI),
an USB MIDI device,
RAM 2GB - 128MB for the integrated Radeon X1250-based graphics using the
Vesa driver,
on-board audio and HDMI of the Asus M2A-VM HDMI are disabled.

Set nice to -19 was a little help, what else can I do?

Cheers,
Ralf

_______________________________________________
64studio-users mailing list
64studio-users@64studio.com
http://lists.64studio.com/mailman/listinfo/64studio-users
 

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