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Old 06-24-2008, 03:13 PM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default Switch off some RT-IRQs

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Quentin Harley wrote:
| Ralf Mardorf wrote:
|> Hm, why? This is one advantage of Linux, that the BIOS isn't to
|> essential. Even the latest BIOS update of my M2A-VM HDMI is said not to
|> be fine with Windows. I'm only running Linux and until now Linux has
|> been fine with each BIOS for this board. I guess that the BIOS, even
|> with Linux, is controlling some off the mobos components. Can there be
|> trouble for Linux, because the BIOS isn't fine?
|
| Absolutely... This is what kept me from using 64 Studio while the
| hardware manufacturers still tried to fix the bios. It took them a
| whole year to fix it, while I tried to make 64studio to work on my new
| system without any joy. At least they got it right in the end!

I had a similar experience with my HP laptop. The motherboard also does
not support any wireless cards other than broadcomm, which is dumb since
it is a standard mini PCIe so it is easily swapped. The moral of the
story is that bad hardware will cripple you regardless of the OS.
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Old 06-25-2008, 06:34 AM
Free Ekanayaka
 
Default Switch off some RT-IRQs

Hi Ralf,

|--==> Ralf Mardorf writes:

RM> In the Ardour list there right now is the information, that shared
RM> interrupts can be a problem, this is contrary to the informations I've
RM> got about the kernel. In this case I guess it's better to believe Ardour
RM> users than kernel experts. I join audio lists, because of the
RM> informations that are coming from experiences, instead to the abstract
RM> once from experts that never use their computers to produce something.

RM> I've to change my opinion. It might be good to remove modules that
RM> request for an IRQ, if there are to many and interrupts have to be
RM> shared.

Thanks for this interesting report, I was not aware about this issue,
as so far I blindely trusted the kernel experts

It would be great to have some tool, which automatically ajdusts your
modules and IRQs to get the best performance out of the system, but it
is a non-trivial task.

For the moment I'd propose to start a page on the 64 Studio site in
order to collect information about tweaking IRQs and kernel modules.

RM> Is it true that handling interrupts manually might be impossible
RM> for laptops?

I'm not sure, but yes I guess so, some tweaks might be harder on
laptops.

Ciao!

Free

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Old 06-25-2008, 09:52 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Switch off some RT-IRQs

Hi Free

Free Ekanayaka wrote:
> Hi Ralf,
>
> Thanks for this interesting report, I was not aware about this issue,
> as so far I blindely trusted the kernel experts
>

Very funny , hey I'm a noob with modern multitasking systems .

> It would be great to have some tool, which automatically ajdusts your
> modules and IRQs to get the best performance out of the system, but it
> is a non-trivial task.
>

I had a phone call with a hardware freak and get some informations. Now
I knows a little bit more and that there are IRQ managers for Windows.
That won't help us, but I guess there are some also for Linux. This
managers won't do any thing full automatically.

> For the moment I'd propose to start a page on the 64 Studio site in
> order to collect information about tweaking IRQs and kernel modules.
>

Thank you .

> RM> Is it true that handling interrupts manually might be impossible
> RM> for laptops?
>
> I'm not sure, but yes I guess so, some tweaks might be harder on
> laptops.
>

The friend I had a phone call with told me that sometimes on any
computer (using Windows) Interrupts won't be used, while others are
overloaded and sometimes hardware gets no interrupt, while IRQs are
free. He tried BIOS settings, desoldered a on-board modem, but (for
Windows) sometimes he has no chance to get IRQs managed the way he tries
to force them, in spite of BIOS functions, managing tools and hardware
tweaks.

Looking at the varying /proc/interrupts of the 64 Studio that's broken
for the sound cards since I tried to install the ATI driver, it might
has to do with IRQs. Okay, I'm still a noob and I could be very, very
wrong, but it's something I'll read more about.

A page on the 64 Studio site would be a help. If there wasn't someone
asking for IRQs in the list, I never would have thought about that some
troubles I have, might has to do with IRQs.

Cheers,
Ralf

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Old 06-25-2008, 02:35 PM
"pw.marcus"
 
Default Switch off some RT-IRQs

Maybe something like this, but it doesn't seem to be developped anymore
since 1997.Sad !

http://www.boutell.com/lsm/lsmbyid.cgi/000082


Cheers



Marc


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Old 06-25-2008, 03:41 PM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default Switch off some RT-IRQs

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Ralf Mardorf wrote:
| Hi Free
|
| Free Ekanayaka wrote:
|> Hi Ralf,
|>
|> Thanks for this interesting report, I was not aware about this issue,
|> as so far I blindely trusted the kernel experts
|>
Probably not a bad idea. I know that there were some problems with IRQ
balancing but I don't really follow these things too closely anymore.
|> It would be great to have some tool, which automatically ajdusts your
|> modules and IRQs to get the best performance out of the system, but it
|> is a non-trivial task.
|>
There are a lot of things you can do, it is probably worth mining the
kernel mailing list. For the moment there is not a lot we should have
to do other than blacklist the occasional module.

Lots of background info can be found on the following sites. Some of it
is CPU specific but there is good info nonetheless.

http://www.lesswatts.org/tips/cpu.php -- there is a section that talks
about IRQ
http://osdev.berlios.de/pic.html -- describes the modern APIC
http://www.irqbalance.org -- daemon for IRQ balancing. I know that the
kernel option for IRQ balancing had some issues with performance for a
while (2.6.9 era). I have no idea where this is at now. This is
packaged for Debian and Ubuntu btw so it should only be an apt-get away.
| I had a phone call with a hardware freak and get some informations. Now
| I knows a little bit more and that there are IRQ managers for Windows.
| That won't help us, but I guess there are some also for Linux. This
| managers won't do any thing full automatically.

|> For the moment I'd propose to start a page on the 64 Studio site in
|> order to collect information about tweaking IRQs and kernel modules.
|>
|
| Thank you .
|
|> RM> Is it true that handling interrupts manually might be impossible
|> RM> for laptops?
|>
|> I'm not sure, but yes I guess so, some tweaks might be harder on
|> laptops.
|>
|
| The friend I had a phone call with told me that sometimes on any
| computer (using Windows) Interrupts won't be used, while others are
| overloaded and sometimes hardware gets no interrupt, while IRQs are
| free. He tried BIOS settings, desoldered a on-board modem, but (for
| Windows) sometimes he has no chance to get IRQs managed the way he tries
| to force them, in spite of BIOS functions, managing tools and hardware
| tweaks.
There is a capable irqbalance program packaged for Debian et al. There
is also a kernel module of the same name that accomplishes a similar task.

Part of this depends on the APIC and the motherboard bios. There are a
number of things we can mess with using /proc or sysctl, look at the
source code and the lkml for more info. Generally we should not be
messing around in here (well we can but don't expect any improvements
with random changes).
|
| Looking at the varying /proc/interrupts of the 64 Studio that's broken
| for the sound cards since I tried to install the ATI driver, it might
| has to do with IRQs. Okay, I'm still a noob and I could be very, very
| wrong, but it's something I'll read more about.
|
| A page on the 64 Studio site would be a help. If there wasn't someone
| asking for IRQs in the list, I never would have thought about that some
| troubles I have, might has to do with IRQs.
|
It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this discussion.
Personally I believe it is much ado about nothing, but it would not be
the first time that I get surprised.
- -
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:46 PM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default Switch off some RT-IRQs

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Quite a lot has changed in 11 years, particularly hardware. IMO this is
not needed anymore. You may wish to check out irqbalance if this sort
of thing really concerns you.

Hth,

pw.marcus wrote:
|
| Maybe something like this, but it doesn't seem to be developped anymore
| since 1997.Sad !
|
| http://www.boutell.com/lsm/lsmbyid.cgi/000082
|
|
| Cheers
|
|
|
| Marc
|
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Old 06-25-2008, 08:38 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Switch off some RT-IRQs

Hi Gustin

I don't know if I'll read and learn all this. I like to make music some
time soon and a standard install of 64 Studio without changes and
without using a bizarre graphics card is fine, but I will see if there
will be a difference if using http://www.irqbalance.org. I haven't read
it until now, but it seems to be interesting for dual core CPUs.

"Useful mostly just for 2.4 kernels, or 2.6 kernels with
CONFIG_IRQBALANCE turned off."
"I know that the kernel option for IRQ balancing had some issues with
performance for a while (2.6.9 era)."

Hm, maybe it's wiser to leave it as it is and to learn about this, by
doing experiments with a Linux that is for experiments, on the other
hand tests need also real work, e.g. making music.

Cheers,
Ralf

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Old 06-26-2008, 07:48 AM
"pw.marcus"
 
Default Switch off some RT-IRQs

Yes, of course I'm concerned, but I have the feeling that on a
"single-core" system, irqbalance is useless, isn't it ?

Cheers

Marc


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Old 06-26-2008, 09:22 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Switch off some RT-IRQs

pw.marcus wrote:
> Yes, of course I'm concerned, but I have the feeling that on a
> "single-core" system, irqbalance is useless, isn't it ?
>
> Cheers
>
> Marc

Hi Marc

it looks like it only mange the allocation for dual and maybe multi-core
systems. I haven't read the doc until now, maybe it also allocates IRQs
for single core systems. Even if there is only on core, there might be
to manage that 2 hardware devices are using the same IRQ, while another
IRQ is unused.

I hope I can spare some time for reading about IRQs.

Cheers,
Ralf

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Old 06-26-2008, 03:00 PM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default Switch off some RT-IRQs

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Ralf Mardorf wrote:
| pw.marcus wrote:
|> Yes, of course I'm concerned, but I have the feeling that on a
|> "single-core" system, irqbalance is useless, isn't it ?
|>
~From the man page Descripton:
The purpose of irqbalance is distribute hardware interrupts across
processors on a multiprocessor system in order to increase performance.

| Hi Marc
|
| it looks like it only mange the allocation for dual and maybe multi-core
| systems. I haven't read the doc until now, maybe it also allocates IRQs
| for single core systems. Even if there is only on core, there might be
| to manage that 2 hardware devices are using the same IRQ, while another
| IRQ is unused.

Since there is only one CPU, it handles all the requests.

| I hope I can spare some time for reading about IRQs.

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